Joining Lemke for this episode is Nick Cowen, Senior Lecturer at the University of Lincoln. In Cowen's recent book, Neoliberal Social Justice, he asks which policies can limit arbitrary socio-economic inequalities, a point Lemke examines further as they discuss what makes an inequality arbitrary. Later in the conversation, Cowen expounds upon the idea of property-owning democracy and why it is not as different from welfare state capitalism as some proponents would argue. Additionally, throughout their dialogue, Cowen and Lemke consider whether the quests for equality and freedom stand complementary or in tension with one another.